Elon Musk Unplugged: Slashing Government Waste & Fighting Fraud

[00:00:01]
Larry
All right, well, welcome to the show and a special interview with Mr. Elon Musk, who, of course, is famed Trump advisor, CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, chair of X Corp. Elon, thank you for doing this. We appreciate it.

[00:00:13]
Elon Musk
Thanks for having me.

[00:00:14]
Larry
I want to begin, but among other things, everyone's attacking you for your position. What are you doing in the government? There was A a CYBERATTACK cyber attack ON on X X TODAY today, WHICH which SHUT shut IT it DOWN down AND MAY HAVE have BEEN been FOREIGN foreign SOURCED. sourced. It's IT'S a A big BIG STORY. story. YOU You WANT want to TO GIVE give us US a A MOMENT moment ON on that? THAT?

[00:00:30]
Elon Musk
WELL, WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT THERE WAS A MASSIVE CYBERATTACK TO TRY TO BRING DOWN THE X SYSTEM WITH IP ADDRESSES ORIGINATING IN THE UKRAINE AREA.

[00:00:42]
Larry
So that's your suspicion. Is the website, is the internet up? Is it up yet? It's up, yeah. It's up yet. Okay, good. But I just was looking back. Let me see if I get this right. They're setting fire to various Tesla charging stations near Boston. Shots were fired at a Tesla dealership in Oregon. Various nonviolent...

[00:01:04]
Elon Musk
Shots fired. Not a metaphor.

[00:01:06]
Larry
Shots fired, yes. Downtown New York marching against the Tesla showroom. Your stock is way down. You've been criticized left and right.

[00:01:18]
Elon Musk
But look on the bright side.

[00:01:20]
Larry
I mean, why are you doing this?

[00:01:22]
Elon Musk
Always look on the right side of life.

[00:01:25]
Larry
Yes. I'm an optimist.

[00:01:29]
Elon Musk
BUT BESIDES THAT, HOW'S YOUR DAY?

[00:01:32]
Larry
WHAT MOTIVATES YOU TO DO THIS?

[00:01:34]
Elon Musk
WAS THE OFFER GOOD?

[00:01:35]
Larry
IT'S TOUGH SLEDDING.

[00:01:37]
Elon Musk
YEAH. IT IS TOUGH SLEDDING. BUT I THINK WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING HERE. THERE'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WASTE AND FRAUD IN THE GOVERNMENT. WHEN YOU WERE PART OF THE GOVERNING, YOU SAW A LOT OF THAT. THERE'S BEen, IF YOU LOOK AT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL REPORTS AND THE GOVERMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, SO, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT'S NOT A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THING, THAT'S A BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THING. SO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET THAT NUMBER DOWN TO A MUCH SMALLER FIGURE, SAVE MONEY FOR THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER, STOP MONEY BEING SPENT ON THINGS THAT ARE, THAT I THINK VERY FEW TAXPayERS WOULD AGREE MAKE SENSE, YOU KNOW, TRANSGENDER ANIMAL SURGERIES OR WHY ARE WE SPENDING MONEY, WHY ARE AMERICANS TAX DOLLARS BEING SPEND ON THIS? The president's gone through a long list of absurd things. Why are the 20 million people who are definitely dead marked as alive in the Social Security database? Why were hundreds of millions of dollars of small business administration loans were given out to people aged 11 and under, according to the Social Security? These must be some very enterprising eight-year-olds.

[00:03:18]
Larry
And some pretty strong 150-year-old.

[00:03:21]
Elon Musk
Yes, exactly. As the president said, you know, we have an enormous number of people. marked as alive who are 160, he didn't know the country was that healthy.

[00:03:32]
Larry
Yes.

[00:03:33]
Elon Musk
You know.

[00:03:34]
Larry
So demystify this. How do you do it? Okay. How big is your team? Yeah. Where do you recruit most of them from? And what is it that makes you choose, you know, the Treasury or Social Security or USAID? How does it work? Let the public know, please.

[00:03:51]
Elon Musk
Right. Well, we just basically follow the money. You know, we look at the president's executive orders, and we also just follow the money, so we started looking closely at USAID because they were completely violating the president's Executive Orders to suspend foreign aid, you know, what's called foreign aid, but in our view is a lot of corruption. So what we saw there is just a tremendous amount of money being sent. to non-governmental organizations. But actually, this, by the way, is I think one of the biggest sources of fraud in the world, is government-funded non-government organizations. This is a gigantic fraud loophole where the government can give money to an NGO, and then there are no controls over that NGO. So they've given billions of dollars, in fact, we estimate tens of billions of dollars to NGOs that are essentially scams.

[00:04:46]
Larry
Mm -hmm.

[00:04:49]
Elon Musk
AND WE'RE TRYING TO PUT A STOP TO THAT.

[00:04:51]
Larry
I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT, BUT SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO JUST COME OUT, I THINK HE TWEETED TODAY, HE HAS ACCEPTED OVER 80% OF YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO SHUT DOWN IN USAID. SO YOUR REVIEW AND ANALYSIS WAS SPOT ON.

[00:05:06]
Elon Musk
Yes, so I think... When people criticize, say, what Doge is doing, we say, well, which part specifically? Because we put all of the actions of the Doge team on the Doge.gov website and on the Doage handle on X. So we post the receipts. So it's like this action has been taken, this action has be taken. So when we get criticism, we say like, of what? Which line do you disagree with? Mm-hmm. Like which cost saving do you disagree with? And then people usually can't think of any.

[00:05:44]
Larry
No.

[00:05:44]
Elon Musk
You know, so.

[00:05:45]
Larry
It's transparent line by line. It's transparent by line. Which is quite remarkable.

[00:05:50]
Elon Musk
Right. And so, and then with respect to the treasury for example, we, the two main recommendations we, suggested, which have now been implemented, was that any payments going out of the Treasury, especially the Treasury's main payment computer, which is called PAM, things like Payments Account Manager or something like that, it's like almost $5 trillion a year, so about a billion an hour, that the payments be coded with the congressional appropriation and that there be an explanation for the payment. Very basic stuff. And just doing that, we estimate we'll save $100 billion a year.

[00:06:33]
Larry
You're not really, let me see if I get this right, particularly with Social Security, you're not really changing policy. You're auditing the fiscal mechanisms to make sure that, you know, from point A gets to point B, and that's where it's supposed to get to. In some cases, it doesn't get there, or in some cases, it may go over there. But that's, it's not a policy exercise. You're not changing laws. You're just doing what any business would do in a profit and loss audit.

[00:07:05]
Elon Musk
I think, really, what we're adding here is caring and competence. And there's a massive amount of fraud of basically people submitting Social Security numbers for Social Security benefits, unemployment, small business administration loans, and medical, where those are THOSE ARE FAKE fake SOCIAL Social SCREEN Security NUMBERS. numbers, or OR THEY'RE they've STOLEN stolen SOMEBODY somebody ELSE'S else's SOCIAL Social SCREEN Security NUMBER. number. AND And WE'RE we're TRYING trying TO to PUT put A a STOP stop TO to ALL all OF of THAT. that. AND THAT'S THE NUMBER WHICH IS ESTIMATED TO BE ON THE ORDER OF 10% OF FEDERAL EXPENDITURES, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS.

[00:07:47]
Larry
A HUGE NUMBER,

[00:07:48]
Elon Musk
YEAH.

[00:07:50]
Larry
You're working with the agency heads. You're working with the cabinet secretaries.

[00:07:55]
Elon Musk
Yes.

[00:07:55]
Larry
I saw Howard Lutnick was on TV yesterday saying you were partnering with them. Is that fair?

[00:08:02]
Elon Musk
Yeah, what we do is in consultation with the cabinet secretaries and with their departments. We're really trying to be—I sort of refer to ourselves as tech support. You know, we're really helping the department get a handle on things. Because what actually happens here is you've got this sort of vast federal bureaucracy, and then you've got a very thin layer on top of the politically appointed officials. And what tends to happen is that the bureaucracy, frankly, is in control. And they largely ignore the politically appointed people.

[00:08:46]
Larry
Why should the bureaucracy—

[00:08:47]
Elon Musk
I'm sure you—you must have seen that.

[00:08:50]
Larry
I've lived with this twice. I worked for Reagan many years ago, and I worked for Trump in the first term. It's like a permanent bureaucracy. I might add it's a permanentlyCY. YES, VERY MUCH SO. AND IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT A BUREAUCRACY THAT NECESSARILY ENFORCES OR IMPLEMENTS PRESIDENTIAL POLICY.

[00:09:08]
Elon Musk
THEY DON'T. IN FACT, THEY TRY THEIR BEST TO THWART PRESIDENTIALLY POLICY, SO But the president is the elected representative of the people. And if the president cannot get things implemented as a reflection of the will of the people, then what we have is not a democracy. We have a bureaucracy. We have rule of the bureau, not rule of the people." And that's what we're trying to defeat here, is the bureaucracy and have rule of the people. As you mentioned, the bureaucracy is overwhelmingly Democrat. So Washington, D.C., was 92.5 percent, I believe, voted for Kamala. So this is overwhelmingly a deep blue situation.

[00:09:58]
Larry
How do you pick your next targeted agency or department?

[00:10:05]
Elon Musk
Well, we're— WE'RE TRYING TO ACT BROADLY ACROSS ALL DEPARTMENTS SO IT'S NOT JUST ONE DEPARTAMENT AT A TIME. BUT... ARE YOU IN ALL OF THEM NOW, ALL OF THE? PRETTY MUCH, YEAH. YES? OH. WE'RE TRyING TO MAKE THE GOVERNMENT MORE EFFICIENT ACROSS THE BOARD. SO, YEAH.

[00:10:27]
Larry
HOW BIG IS YOUR TEAM?

[00:10:29]
Elon Musk
WE'RE We're a little over 100 at this point. 100. Get to 200.

[00:10:33]
Larry
You're going to get to 200? Yeah. Okay. And you're A recruiting from where.

[00:10:39]
Larry
More or less.

[00:10:40]
Elon Musk
Basically, it's software people, you know, information security software people, It's basically finance and technology. I mean, frankly, I can't believe I'm here doing this. It's kind of bizarre. I kind of think that the, you know, we've got this enormous federal budget deficit, and it's a $2 trillion deficit. It keeps growing. our interest payments are higher than our Defense Department budget. That, I think, was the real wake-up call for me, was looking at seeing that the interest payments, the national debt, exceeded the Defense Department budget And that was only growing over time, which meant if we didn't do something about this, There won't be any money for anything. We'll just be servicing debt.

[00:11:41]
Larry
And you know how to read an income statement. And you know How to read a balance sheet. You've had some business experience. I'm kidding, but you know about this stuff.

[00:11:52]
Elon Musk
I MEAN, I JUST DON'T WANT AMERICA TO GO BANKRUPT.

[00:11:54]
Larry
SO IT'S A CALL TO ACTION. YOU'RE HEARING A CALL TO ACTION?

[00:12:12]
Elon Musk
Yeah, I mean...

[00:12:14]
Larry
But there's no turning back, you're saying?

[00:12:20]
Elon Musk
I'mjust here trying to make government more efficient, eliminate waste and fraud, and So far, we're making good progress, actually. So our savings at this point exceed $4 billion a day. So it's pretty significant.

[00:12:38]
Larry
You think you'll wind up getting to a trillion dollars? Yeah. In savings?

[00:12:43]
Elon Musk
I mean, unless someone's—unless we're stopped, we will get to a trillion dollars of savings.

[00:12:48]
Larry
And that stuff can be translated. I mean, we've been talking—we had Russell Vogt, the OMB director, on earlier. THROUGH VERY RECISION AUTHORITY, EMPOWERMENT AUTHORITIES. I BELIEVE YOU SAID IT EARLIER, IT'S AN AUDIT THAT WILL NOT GATHER DUST ON SHELVES. THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO WIND UP WITH REAL SAVINGS, BEND THE BASIS, SPENDING BASELINE DOWN.

[00:13:09]
Elon Musk
Yeah. There have been many good audits, like I said, done by inspector generals and by government accountability office, and they just haven't been implemented. Nothing's been done. The, you know... But I think the GAO identified there were 17 million dead people in the social security database several years ago. It's now 20 million. But nobody did anything about it. I mean, I think we can sort of look at this as a complaint minimization optimization. So basically, if the government sends money out to, whether it's a wasteful or fraudulent, nobody complains if they receive money, but they do complain if they don't receive money. And the people that complain the loudest are the ones receiving the fraudulent money. I mean, just like you said, the goal here is let's not have America go bankrupt with waste and fraud. Well, we're just getting things done as opposed to writing a report. Like I say, reports don't mean anything. You've got to actually take action. So the... I mean, the way it's important in entitlement spending, which is all of the, which is most of the federal spending, is entitlements. THAT'S THE BIG ONE TO ELIMINATE. THAT'S THE SORT OF HALF TRILLION, MAYBE 600, 700 BILLION A YEAR. THAT IS ALSO A MECHANISM BY WHICH THE DEMOCRATS ATTRACT AND RETAIN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BY ESSENTIALLY PAYING THEM. TO COME HERE AND THEN TURNING THEM INTO VOTERS.

[00:15:07]
Larry
YES.

[00:15:08]
Elon Musk
SO THIS IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS ARE SO UPSET ABOUT THE SITUATION, BECAUSE THEY'RE LOSING, YOU KNOW, IF WE TURN OFF THIS GIGANTIC MONEY MAGNET FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, THEN THEY WILL LEAVE. AND THEY WILL LOSE VOTERS.

[00:15:24]
Larry
YOU HAVE PRESIDENT'S SUPPORT. HE SAID SO AGAIN YESTERDAY. HE COMPLETELY SUPPORTS YOUR OPERATION.

[00:15:31]
Elon Musk
Yeah, well, thanks. Without the president's support, we couldn't make any progress here. Yeah, I mean, where you'll see the biggest outcry is from the Democrats who are—they don't want the Ways and Forwards to be turned off because it is a gigantic magnet to attract illegal immigrants and have them stay in the country. And I mean, you see some of the crazy stuff like where money from FEMA, you know, which meant FEMA is an agency that's meant to take care of Americans in distress. And a bunch of their money was being sent to pay for luxury hotels in New York for illegal immigrants. And that was happening even after the president was elected, even after he signed an executive order saying that needs to stop. SO WE ACTUALLY MADE SURE THAT THAT MONEY DID STOP GOING. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THAT AMERICAN TAXPAYER MONEY IS SPENT ON LUXURY HOTELS FOR LEGALS. BUT YOU HAVE TO SAY, LIKE, WHY WAS THAT BEING DONE? IT WAS BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO IMPORT VOTERS, BASICALLY.

[00:16:35]
Larry
YES. I agree. Yeah.

[00:16:38]
Elon Musk
And that's also why there's no voter ID needed. In fact, in California and New York State, you're not allowed to show voter ID. That's a crazy, doesn't that seem insane?

[00:16:52]
Larry
Insane.

[00:16:53]
Elon Musk
Yeah.

[00:16:54]
Larry
I'd say that as a New Yorker, it's insane.

[00:16:56]
Elon Musk
Insane.

[00:16:57]
Larry
And it violates the entire constitution and the principles behind it.

[00:17:03]
Elon Musk
Yes.

[00:17:03]
Larry
Producers are yelling at me to get out. I don't want to end this interview because it's too much fun. Yeah. Can I just ask you one thing, 20 seconds, nothing to do with, nothing to do with Doge. Can you rescue the astronauts?

[00:17:17]
Elon Musk
YES, WE'RE BRINGING THEM BACK IN A FEW WEEKS.

[00:17:18]
Larry
THERE'S NOT NEAR ENOUGH ATTENTION BEING PAID TO THIS. YOU'RE GOING TO GET THEM BACK?

[00:17:22]
Elon Musk
WE'RE GOING To GET THEMBACK.

[00:17:23]
Larry
GOD BLESS.

[00:17:23]
Larry
THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR SERVICE, ELON MUSK. WE APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. APPRECIATED. TAKE CARE.

[00:17:28]
Elon Musk
THANK YOU

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